@cylb I'm afraid explusion is the only answer. It is the opinion of the entire staff that Dexter is criminally insane.

Emacsen boosted

If you've ever wondered what the big fuss about open source vs free software is, read this:

"Open source is designed to advance the intellectual property of the corporation at the expense of effort by individuals outside the corporation. As such, it falls under corporatism, as defined in John Ralston Saul's dictionary The Doubter's companion. Open source is all about externalising costs for development and testing, as economists would say"

(source: personal.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Perso)

I'm afraid he's not, Miss Fishpaw. Dexter's truancy problem is way out of hand. The Baltimore County school board have decided to expel Dexter from the entire public school system.

@jaywink @cwebber @rhiaro Well the whole Spritely thing is sort-of-kind-of a place where bots and people can interact.

And TBH these bots might be less toxic than the people we interact with. :)

Emacsen boosted

Calling all #Fediverse admins of instances in the #EU. The #CopyrightDirective is coming, we need to show the MEPs how massively the EU Internets will be affected.

We are preparing a list of all EU-based #Pleroma, #Mastodon, #GNUSocial, #Peertube, #Funkwhale, and any other instances.

Please *contact me*. All I need is the domain name, which EU Member State it's located in, and the rough topic of the instance. Approximate user count welcome, but not necessary.

Please help. This is important.

@cwebber @rhiaro I have a slightly different view that explains the toxic behavior in a more predictive way....

Social media rewards extreme and generally anti-social behavior. It rewards toxic activity. People get Likes and Boosts. They get "points" and the subsequent hormonal rewards for acting in ways that hurt and alienate. It's absolutely unhealthy. I think it's slowly starting to change, but it's very slow.

@zge @librelounge @cwebber I was a bit agressive in squeezing the episode down under 40 mins.

Emacsen boosted

@cwebber and @emacsen are back from FOSEM and CopyleftConf with a new episode all about their experiences, Chris's grant to work on Spritely and some exciting talks. All in the new episode of Libre Lounge librelounge.org/episodes/episo

@cwebber @astraluma What if a first crack at this was nothing more than a terminal emulator living in an HTML5 canvas, but sharable? It would be severely limiting but show the concept off.

Emacs keybindings wouldn't work, but that's okay for a demo.

@cwebber @astraluma I'm clearly not the only one whose thought of this:


For people wanting a Javascript version of Emacs, or Emacs living in the browser, you're missing core parts of emacs, which is that is what needs to be doing the file handling (and thus synchronization) as well as parts of the display.

@cwebber @astraluma This is funny but even this won't work. Two emacs users can't work on the same org-mode file at the same time easily.

Either we'll get into synchronization issues or we'll get into configuration differences!

@cwebber @astraluma I agree but *technically* org-mode is structured text. It's just a very extensible format that gets built upon.

The problem is that the format is so complex and deeply tied to the rendering that every time anyone tries to replicate all the functionality, it fails. I don't think these developers are dumb. That means we have two choices:

a) Abandon org-mode.

I don't want to but I am bumping up against too many limitations

b) Make emacs talk to the rest of the world

@cwebber @astraluma Another option would be the Collabora model. Make an new Emacs frontend that is the browser somehow. Emacs can already handle multiple windows, so this would be mostly that.

I wonder why no one has done this? Maybe it's too hard? You'd have to do it in something like Canvas... with its own fonts and stuff, but would it really be that much harder than GTK?

@cwebber @astraluma I have the same complaint I think it's because org-mode editing is the reverse of the MVC model. In org-mode you edit the data and then you render it in your agenda, etc.

What that means is that you can't operate atomically on the data easily. Emacs is always operating on the files, without the abstraction layer.

It's what makes org-mode so powerful and extensible, but without some kind of abstraction layer that Emacs could manage, there's no way to improve the situation.

@61 Yes of course you're right, but we're straying too far from the original discussion, which was the perceived benefits of a cloud computing approach.

In this case, faster/easier/more linear provisioning, unlike doing it yourself which will require all this up front cost and possible staffing.

As for privacy and other considerations- yes they happen any time you outsource, whether using virtual machines, bare metal or "serverless".

@ebel @dgold The minute we start to add on morality clauses into our code, we run into terrible issues, many of which have been talked about in the past but are things like "You can't be South African and use this code", or "You can't have ads or accept money".

If we go down this road people could say "No Irish", or "No Jews" or "No Gays". Free Software must be free for absolutely everyone.

@61 I think that the "serverless" approach on hardware you own is actually the best of all worlds as its been my experience that working with developers that they will sometimes hard code resources into their production level code- hosts, paths, etc. which make it then impossible to move or scale. Adopting these paradigms can make a big difference.

@61 Good reasons not to use a VPS is that while up front costs are lower, your at any sort of scale, your overall costs are much higher. You are paying the overhead premium.

Also, depending on the work you're doing, such providers may not be optimized for it. In much of the work I've done in the distant past, working with scientists, we were IO, not CPU bound. Most VPS providers are not building systems with that in mind. There are also privacy issues to keep in mind as well when you outsource.

@61 VPS and other "cloud providers" offer a few discreet benefits- firstly a linear provisioning cost. If you want to start building out a server room you'll need space, equipment, cooling, etc. VPSes are linear in their cost. They also don't require the same cost in up front staffing. And they can be cost effective when you need a lot of computing in short bursts, rather than long processes. Those are real reasons people/companies may choose that route. Reasons people might not in pt3. :)

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