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Today I'm blocking kolektiva.social because they call for the death of 7 million Jews.

I hope that @fediblock considers adding to their list for the same.

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@emacsen @fediblock I've met some nice people on that instance.

Someone was calling for the killing of 7 million Jews there? And the moderators aren't doing anything?

If anything they'd be the type of people to call for the Jews to murder 7 million people lol
@realcaseyrollins @fediblock @emacsen @masterofthetiger kolektiva.social apparently wants the state of israel destroyed.
this can be seen as a call to genocide or a call to anarchy.
and given that they are anarchists...
I don't see how it can be seen as a call to genocide.
They very clearly say "state".

@dhfir @fediblock @realcaseyrollins @masterofthetiger

Read the thread for more, but they only explicitly call for the destruction of Israel, and they call for Israel's boycott, not other countries.

Also, this is targeting essentially of refugees.

It's absolutely criminal- and I mean that literally
Therefore this is not "just anarchy" because it's just targeted.

@realcaseyrollins @fediblock @dhfir @masterofthetiger

There are different forms of illegal. Not all illegal acts are criminal.

Many US states have anti-BDS laws, and many organizations (including governments) have adopted the IHRA definition of antisemitism.

That doesn't mean a cop will pull you off the street for it.

@dhfir @fediblock @realcaseyrollins @masterofthetiger

Please see the rest of this thread. I've address this point twice already.

@emacsen @fediblock @realcaseyrollins @masterofthetiger I've read the thread multiple times.
I have scanned kolektiva's about page for any mention of jews, or israel.
I'm not seeing any genocide?

@dhfir @fediblock @realcaseyrollins @masterofthetiger

There's a lot of coded language used there but let me explain it simply:

Jews are persecuted and killed in most of the middle east. They're killed in Egypt, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, and in the West Bank, and Gaza.

Calling for the destruction of Israel is de-facto calling for the destruction of the protection of these people, half the world's Jews, as well as alll the Queer folks, as Israel has highly progressive LGBTQ+ laws.

@dhfir @emacsen @realcaseyrollins @masterofthetiger 👾 yeah what?? This does not in any way suggest genocide. It's a really standard anarchist position.

@changeling @masterofthetiger @dhfir @realcaseyrollins

Read the rest of the thread.

The Ziophobic language used is coded in the same way "Gender critical" makes it anti-trans hate sound as if it's thoughtful and progressive.

This is what a dog whistle looks like.

Also, go to blog.babka.social and read my most recent two blog posts on these topics.

@emacsen @masterofthetiger @dhfir @realcaseyrollins I did read all of the thread that I can see and I don't see any further evidence presented? It's worded the same way as any anarchist I know would say it. I guess we're just not gonna agree on this if you think opposition to the state of israel is antisemitic

@changeling @masterofthetiger @dhfir @realcaseyrollins

If you read the entire thread, including everything about how they single out Israel, and Jews, and how they call for the boycott of only Israel, and they specifically call for the destruction of Israel, knowing that this would mean the genocide of Jews and you still don't see anything wrong, then yeah I think there's nothing else really to discuss.

@emacsen @changeling @masterofthetiger @realcaseyrollins I would like to know that of the 4 jewish people whose opinion on Israel I've heard on fedi, two are trans, live in israel, and recognize it as being geopolitical bullshit, the third would be yourself, and the fourth told you to cease being melodramatic in this very thread.
@emacsen @changeling @masterofthetiger @dhfir @realcaseyrollins
>say shooting Palestinian children and violating Palestinian people's human rights is bad
>Ziophobe
@realcaseyrollins @changeling @emacsen @dhfir @masterofthetiger they're the same for some. personally I think it should be a federation and both ethnicities should live democratically with human rights for all
@changeling @dhfir @emacsen @masterofthetiger @realcaseyrollins that's like thinking people who say "Death to America" actually want to kill everyone in the U.S.
@AlienSkyler @changeling @dhfir @emacsen @masterofthetiger @realcaseyrollins hey some of my friends are ~~state-suppressed hostages living in unceded occupied turtle island territory born free but everywhere in chains of red white and blue tape being told at gunpoint by their oppressors that their very oppression is freedom~~ american!

that’s like thinking people who say “Death to America” actually want to kill everyone in the U.S.

What’s interesting about this argument is that it works against your favor since it’s the ideology behind Islamic terrorism

Which granted hasn’t been much of a problem in the #USA as of late but still, these people usually don’t particularly mind killing Americans

@realcaseyrollins @apophis @changeling @emacsen @dhfir @masterofthetiger maybe I have just heard anarchists say it more recently
I could have sworn I read somewhere about some people in the middle east who wanted the state of America destroyed because it was badly oppressing them but didn't necessarily want everyone killed, but maybe I am remembering wrong
to be clear I don't think anyone deserves to die because of the country they live in
@AlienSkyler @changeling @dhfir @emacsen you definitely remember correctly

and i'm just gonna get rid of the trumpie and the evangelical-lookin' weirdo from the tags
@apophis @changeling @dhfir @emacsen I don't think I have run into anyone who got on my nerves so much since leaving Facebook

@masterofthetiger @fediblock

The about page specifically say they call for the *destruction of Israel*. That's "Kill the Jews"

antisemitism 

@emacsen Ah, I see that now.

> We support the self-determination of the Palestinian people as well as the destruction of the ethnonationalist Israeli state, alongside all states

Genuine question: Is it possible for someone to be anti Zionist while being pro Jew or is that categorically impossible?

I understand if you don't want to elaborate, as this is probably something you hear often and tire from explaining.

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

That is a *very* complicated question, and it gets into many very nuanced areas.

Luckily we don't need to answer in the abstract. We can just look *at them* and we can see it for what it is. I'll explain over a few posts.

1. Ethnostate

First, it's a myth that Israel is an ethnostate. There are many ethnicities that make up the Jewish people, and the Jewish state has a 25% non-Jewish population anyway.

1/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

But even if that weren't the case and it was 99%, do they call for the destruction of all ethnostates? Do they call for the destruction of Japan, for example?

No, only Israel.

2. They aren't calling for the destruction of any other country based on any criteria. They aren't calling for the destruction of the US, Canada, or even human rights violating countries, like China, North Korea, etc. Nope only Israel. Gee I wonder why...

2/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

3. They claim to be for indigenous people... but isn't that the point? Jews are indigenous to Israel. The Arabs only lived there ~200 years. But somehow Jews are the "colonists".

And Israel has been around >70 years, with multiple generations living there. Yet they call for the destruction of this country.

4. Anyone who knows anything about the region knows that Jews can't enter Palestinian controlled territory. They also can't live in Egypt/Jordan.

3/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

Jews have fled from all over, mostly as refugees, to Israel because they were unsafe. The US is a country of immigrants, Israel is a country of refugees. Yet they knowingly call for the destruction of the protection of these people. And only these people.

So you see, they're not talking about morality or peace, or co-existence. No, it's about destruction, and killing of Jews, and only Jews.

/end

antisemitism 

@emacsen This makes some sense, and answers my question.

I do want to mention that they don't explicitly call for the destruction of all ethnostates, but it is implied with "along with all states". They don't believe any state has legitimacy. Japan would be included there, including the United States, Canada, China, North Korea, etc.

Of those I've seen, many of them explicitly call for the destruction of the United States under the same justification. (It's a colonial state, etc.)

They don't talk about morality, peace, or co-existence with the United States either, but they deny any allegations of "white genocide", claiming that an egalitarian stateless society would provide equality for all, not just the privileged settler class.

Kolektiva is more radical than most anti-Zionists, and anyone else really. I won't defend them though, since I don't know their actual position beyond what they state.

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

If this was "all countries" then let them support a boycott on the US, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, China, etc.

But no they only support boycotting Israel.

That's just an excuse around hate. It's the same as any other hate but wrapped up in the rhetoric of the left.

re: antisemitism 

@emacsen That makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

Destroying a state is not the same as destroying the people living under it. He's being ridiculous.

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

There's another component, but I'd genuinely like to know if I answered your question.

"Is it possible?" is hard, because in real life, in my experience, the anti-Zionists will say that they're for one thing, but then do another. For example, they will say "We're only against Israel" but then they will go to a kosher market in Canada and protest, or they will call for Jewish organizations in a secular university to have all funding cut off, in the New Jersey.

1/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

Anti-Zionists call for Jews to be protested, they call for Jews to be "canceled", they will call for Jewish religious organizations to be de-funded, all under the guide of "it's about Israel."

They also sometimes physically attack Jews on the street, yelling "Free Palestine" as they shoot them or try to run them over with their cars, as they did in the UK, and happens in placed like NYC as well.

2/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

So "Is it possible?" to me is almost always a bit of a strawman argument, because I'm not arguing whether it's theoretically possible, but about specific people and specific arguments.

Is it possible for someone to support BDS and it not be antisemitic? to me is like "Is it possible for someone to support the KKK and not hate Black people?", and race, even if that person is Jewish is irrelevant, as irrelevant as if a Black person supported the KKK.

3/

antisemitism 

@masterofthetiger

But the nuance is that I don't think everyone who supports BDS truly understands the situation. They may think they do, much like how some people, when they join a white supremacist or white nationalist organization, may at first be drawn in by the idea of "Pride" and only later then see the terrible harm.

But we don't judge a group based on those people, we judge a group based on its actions and words of its leadership.

That's my answer.

/end

@Hyolobrika @fediblock

Calling for the destruction of Israel, not reform, not political change, or politics. This is straight up calling for the murder of Jews..

>Calling for the destruction of Israel
>This is straight up calling for the murder of Jews
That's not the same thing and you know it.
Israel is a country, not an ethnicity.
Stop being melodramatic.

@Hyolobrika @fediblock

"Stop being melodramatic when they call for the death of 7 million people!"

ROFL. Blocked!

I would like to see evidence that they did that.
@emacsen @Hyolobrika @fediblock oh hi mossad

they call for the destruction of the state of Israel not of its people.
Hi again. I just want to say: I'm sorry for antagonising you before.
I realise now that you interpret the word "state" as meaning an entire nation or country, and so including all the people living in it, whereas I and the majority of this thread (and also, most probably, the writers of the about page in question) interpret it to mean government. Destruction of a government does not have to mean the destruction of the country it rules or the people who live there. It does not even have to mean the destruction of the people who make up the government. It can just mean it's peaceful dismantling.
My cousin lives in Israel and is Jewish. If I thought the kolektiva.social admins wanted her dead, I wouldn't have defended them.
Hope we can be friendly with each other from now on.

That’s like believing US white supremacists will peacefully and valuntarily cleanse the US from non-whites You have to be exceptionally stupid to believe what you are saying

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