Non-Jews, without looking it up, do you know what the actual definition of Zionist is?

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Not sure why it's a nice one. I was discussing with a prominent person about what people who aren't familiar with Israel or Palestine think Zionism means, and my assertion is that most non-Jews have no idea what it means, it's just a word they've heard used, usually in a negative context, but they don't actually know what the definition of it is.

@emacsen as in yeah, gottem they have no idea what the fuck a zionist is

@emacsen I think someone who wants to establish the state Israel, but I am not sure.

@emacsen are you looking for something other than movement(s) advocating the establishment / maintenance of a "Jewish state" roughly where modern Israel is? That leaves defining "Jewish state", which I suppose is a bit fraught.


I am just testing out a theory that most people (even those who have a stance on the topic) don't actually have a working definition in their minds.



For anyone like me who didn't know it, I'm just gonna drop the wiki link here:



The purpose of the poll, for me, is to discuss a debate amongst Jews. I talk with many people who declare "I'm anti-Zionist", but when I ask them "What do you think Zionist means?" they will say something like "They believe in killing Palestinians." or they will say "I don't know."

My belief is that most people, even those who say they're anti-Zionist, aren't actually anti-Zionist- it's just a word they don't know the meaning of.

A poll seemed an easy way to ask folks.


@emacsen yeah, but it was still something I had to look up afterwards :p

@emacsen As an exmormon, I'm familiar with how Latter-day Saints define "Zion" as well as how the Hebrew Bible defines "Zion". This has been something of congitive dissonance for me.

If I'm correct, my understanding is that the Hebrew Bible defines it as the physical location of Jerusalem. Latter-day Saints define it as a spiritual gathering of refuge as well as a peaceful state of being.

This always bugged me because it's clear that it's a specific physical location, not a metaphorical one.


Zion is a physical place. It's one of the names of Jerusalem.

Jerusalem is where Jewish life has focused its energy for thousands of years. Synagogues have the holy arc pointing to Jerusalem, we mention Jerusalem explicitly during Passover, and so on.

I asked my wife what they actually do in Jerusalem regarding pointing and she said they point to site of the old temple, which makes sense.

If it's metaphorical or not is somewhat complex, I'd say it's both.


> Latter-day Saints define it as ... a peaceful state of being.

If you've ever been in traffic in Jerusalem, it will quickly dissuade you of any such notions.

@emacsen isnt zionism like sexually identifying as an rpg7?
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