Watching my partner at a panel about women on gaming put on by Microsoft. So many feels. Supporting her... Glad that MS is encouraging to young women to code. I like game (and even buy proprietary ones every so often). OTOH proprietary software makes me sad.

@_emacsomancer Yes, but OTOH they're supporting women in this way. So complicated feels.

@emacsen Yes, I definitely get it. And MS is large and complicated enough that (in addition to of course employing some individual people who are both smart and ethical) I have the sense that there are surely 'good divisions' within the larger company (the larger company itself though, in my view, is clearly evil).

@emacsen encourage to participate then encourage to reinforce community over corporation? maybe

I love that games have become this incredible new form of storytelling that goes beyond movies or books and want to support the creators, but as you mention, so much is proprietary, most is even under DRM. 🙁

MS is tough too. They have honestly done many things right lately, but its so hard to trust and corporation, not to mention the one that used to call libre software a "cancer." I'm trying to be open minded.

@laydros We can still take things that are good and see them as good. Promoting women in programming is a good thing.

That doesn't mean we have to like anyone else or accept what they do- but it means we can maybe learn from them.

Well said.

And I totally agree about the need for more women in programming.

Corporations are like water, they just flow downhill.

When MS was the biggest dog in town, they did anti-competitive stuff to try to strangle the market into a monopoly.

10 years after they've clearly failed, they're now playing the 2nd place game, which is to pay lip service to freedom and cycle back to "Embrace" until they're big enough to Extinguish again.

As long as their bottom line is selling proprietary software, they can't have really changed. None of them have.

@laydros What I mean by the first sentence is, they're just following a playbook. They're not people, they don't have morals the way a person does.

"The lawnmower doesn't hate you. Don't personify it, it can't hate you. But you stick your hand in it, it chops it off."

I think that is largely true, but for example I think Tim Cook as a gay man really does care about human rights. Yes, at the end of the day he has to answer to the board. But I think some of what he does has value, and it isn't just for marketing reasons.

As @emacsen pointed out, when MS does something to promote women in programming, we can hopefully take some benefit from that.

The corporations do exist for making money, but sometimes the actions are being made by humans that aren't entirely bad.

@laydros @emacsen I think they do those actions because they know that such a wealthy company would look bad for not doing them, not because they're made of good people. (Although they might be)

It's fine to benefit from it, of course.

@CharredStencil @laydros You think that people would notice if a Microsoft store in a Vancouver suburb *didn't* run an event for women in game development?

I'd love to see structures that allow for larger/more complex games to be build outside traditional proprietary software companies but I don't think people would have noticed if the store *hadn't* run the event.

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